Western Hârn and the Phâric tribal origins

Shealladh's picture

Doing some work on the origins of the western Phâric tribal origins and would love to see Tríerzòn Map and Article, are these in the works? - Posted this question elsewhere ;)

Yet like to add some questions and what I'm trying to achieve;

Considering as such, using harn-history.pdf from Jeremy's website. This has both Linguistic & Cultural Settlements and their 'known' timelines, I'm trying to expand upon and creating a Timeline of how these Tribes mixed and flesh out a better understanding of the history.

Focus Layers;
Linguistics: 'Civilised' Hârnic Dialects, Tribal Hârnic Dialects
Jarinese & other dialects

Culture: Arlún's Kingdom TR635-656, Coráni Empire TR470, Western Hârn TR300-453, Tribes & Others TR100, Jarin Settlement (BT1300-900)

Now given the above information, I'm (slowly) piecing together the available information for these Phâric Tribes and where they've come from, COL4761 Barbarians give some limited information on some of these tribes and where they come from.

(from Kèthîra P43)
"The Phâric peoples originated in Reksýna but were driven west into the Járind ethnic area by Ketâri tribes....Phâric tongues have been strongly influenced by languages of other families....The family includes Hârbáaler/Chéler, Ivínian, Pálithàner, Quârph, Shôrka and Tríerzi."

So the main migrations to Western Hârn came from Hârbáaler/Chéler, Ivínian, Quârph, Shôrka and Tríerzi in the earlier migrations periods. A few snippets come from Shôrkýnè, Emélrenè, etc., but are there others?

So the first task I'm trying to complete is the region all these tribes came from (Chelni, Gozyda, Hodiri, Kath, Pagaelin Tulwyn) .ie "the Solori were a hardy people dwelling in west central Lythia in the regions now called Beshakan and Gothmir." I do believe quite a few of the Phâric Tribes migrated from Ménak, Gónati, and other distant locations, however there is a lot of snippets here and there but no defined description.

The second is to build up western Hârn history by combining the Culture and Language merging, replacement, and so on until you get to the Modern (TR720) Dialects for the regions.

Is there any diagrams for the Language Tree over time?
So I'm making one anyways, similar to say modern linguistics charts for language and their development and extinction. Eventually I'd like to see a completed tree for all 11 Languages tbh.

ie. IndoEuropean>Germanic>West>Anglo-Frisian>Old English>English/Scots/Yola

Anyways back to the task at hand, focus is on 'Barbarian' Dialects which give us [Ivino-Sorki], [Uphari], [Chohar], [Azerian]. The area I think needs expanding here is adding how the Gozyda got there, and where from. Then how they mixed, killed off, or adapted the Jarin (Erynyn, Mollenryn, Athelyn, Athulan, etc.) and helped flesh out the regions dialects of the modern era, ie. [Kandian].

I can find no evidence or trace of the history behind quite a few tribal ones such as Gemalan, yet wish to known more on Themi, Gesain, Rethali, Ariathe, Aleta, Corani, Shira, and Gozyda.

Finally will like to have a historic timeline for the region of western Hârn, the Founders, settlement tribes, migrations, and then the changes influenced by the rise of the Coráni Kingdom through to Coráni Empire and the aftermath that created Kandáy, Réthem, and Thârda.

Sadly a lot of focus has been on eastern Hârn, would love to see a more fleshed out material for the west.

And this all started from a simple question about the Coráni Architecture, giving more questions such as the rise of Religion and their spread, alongside migrations and the technology that they brought with them. So did anyone bring something similar like the development of Shôrka dak with them to the shores of Hârn, that changed everything from Castle Development, to new Architecture styles and building practices as would have been the case when the Normans took control of England in 1066, forever changing the culture and contributing to the future of the region in question. Insert here how the Coráni Tribe became the Future empire and where all those new ideas and ways of thinking came from, was if brought, or was it something more atkin to a change in thinking due to the melding of multiple cultures and simply social change that added fuel to that reformed influx of new ideas.

Sorry for the long post, but hopefully the aim is clear of my intention and direction with all this? And sometime in the near future I will be able to flesh this out and release a fanon (with permission) map and timeline article that shows all this in a clear and helpful manner.

pokep's picture

Cool stuff . . .

- I don't know of any attempts to put a time-axis on the language tree. There is a chronology for scripts (which is much easier).

- You ask an important question . . . "Did anyone bring anything with them that changed everything . . . ?" Summa Venarive answers in the affirmative regarding Lothrim, who brought the mouldboard plow and a new level of political organization to central Harn. But regarding the Corani Empire it compares the development of the Court of Pentacles with the Mangai, concludes that they are examples of parallel evolution, and finishes with the statement, "While there is no question that there was contact between the two empires, there are few unambiguous cases in which the Coráni directly copied the Àzeryáni. For the most part, the Coráni derived their culture from within."

But Summa doesn't delve any further back into the past than Lothrim. It's still an open question whether the Corani (or any other tribe) brought anything with them, whether the unique character of western Harn derived from some characteristics of the place (such as its isolation), from proximity to Evael or Araka-Kalai, or some other factors.

Personally, I'm always intrigued by theories of geography. In my own fanon, "Thard: River of Empire", I looked at how the Thard River shaped the current cultural milieu. That piece only looks back as far as the Corani Empire, but you might find some inspiration in there. I tend to criticize authors like Jared Diamond ("Guns, Germs, and Steel") for trying to put too much weight on very slender logical threads, but that doesn't stop me from committing the same sin in my Harnic writings.

Shealladh's picture

Needles in Hayfields

Delving into all materials in regards to language trees/families atm to give me a good baseline to unravel it all. You're right chronology of scripts are the easiest part :p

I am guessing that the flow of "migrations" shall help form and flesh out the timeline of the family lineage of languages and hint at merging cultures and so on.

Tribes popping up at various times also help with Time Points and forks in the timeline as well. Just need to dig and make a spreadsheet of all the data and information available to us.

Chico (over on his thread The Lythian Tribe that settled the Ulmerien Valley (Chybisa: Timeline QnA 1) @ HârnForum) has unravelled some of the chain in regards to Hodiri [Chohar] & the Solori [Azerian], btw we've messaged each other with thoughts on the matter as well.

Other information that seems to be in small tid bits refer to the Kath [Uphari], Tulwyn [Uphari], Chelni [Chohar] and Pagaelin [Ivino-Sorki], and for my aim, the Pagaelin brings up an intersting question also. Are they related to the Gozyda, they from the same region but from different timelines, or are they related way back from the Sorki migrations originating from Quârphor etc.

Using Venârivè and the MigrationEra layer the Phâric have a vast migration area. Sadly we don't have eastern Lýthia (hint hint Jeremy) so don't have information in regards to the push by the Rekâri & Ketâric pushing them west to fill in some reason for them to flee ;)

Phâric migrations have many forks: Uquâr, Gónati, Ménak, Soquâr, Ivíni, Uphâri, and Tochémi.

Yârhin migrations have nearly as many: Yârynè, Járin, Wynérhin, and Hôrzili.

In the same vein, other areas seem to have good sources for more migrants from other areas, Àzeryáni, Býrian, Târga, in which there are some mentions of them migrating to Hârn, and north and north west too.

Using the above with "development of the Court of Pentacles" and info regarding Lothrim, we can then delve into the expansion of other groups that help fuel development and change.

ie. (summa) ~ Emélrenè/Hârbáal/Tríerzòn/etc.?
" but it was during this period that organisation and structure in worship began to emerge, in response to both social change and other religions becoming more organised. The Church of Naveh emerged around bt750; that of Peoni around bt600; that of Larani around bt370; that of Morgath around bt250; and that of Sarajin by bt150. Agrikanism had been in existence since around bt1500; but in bt100 a more formalised church emerged."

Gives us the rise, in this example, of Àgríkan references: BT1500 Ilpýlen delivers the word of Ágrik; beginning of Vénic Dark Age; TR248 Àgríkan Imperial Octennial Games (Ukhíla) at Lysâra. With the spread of these games, this would bring alot of other events in the south eastern region. TR94 destruction of Sávè-K’nôran great temple at Sháras by forces of Îrkárgai (Ázeryàn) which all point to their expansion.

So aside from geography, good points and thoughts on that btw, the migrations used boats to flee their oppressors, using modern happenings around this topic, we see that people when pushed hard enough will strive to survive not matter how far they need to go to find peace. So my thinking is to track the flow of language, then settlements, and over time, add more war refugees for specific events that changed course the of a country or regions history.

So just like your Thard River example, the western regions of harn started with the Jarin settlements, and add waves of new refugees. The trick is what did they bring, did they loose those skills over time as their social interactions occured (thinking Romans leave Briton) and they moved foward using cultural aspects as they see no need for those "contraptions" used by the intruders, be they Lothrim, Corani, or any others.

Just a thought on Chésmè al Álion & Lóthrim (aka Lothraem Halmaenth), even though it states they came from Mèlderýn before establishing their colony of arcanists at Elkâl-Anúz in TR100, and possibly from Nurisel, it does not state or make clear if he actually came from elsewhere and where he was born. If they (Lothrim and his six) brought the Gârgún to this world, what if they also drew in other material/knowledge from another world, even if one must use the cliche "apprentice" routine :p

Damn, another rant, but I like a challenge, just putting my thoughts out there. Working alone would have limited even Lóthrim, so gotta seek guideance. Anyways I'll plod along and hopefully soon shall start to unravel this all and post. I'd post on the HârnForum but they seem to be more focused on eastern Hârn especially around Káldôr sadly. Mind you, that's their interest and that's fine, but the old Corani/Rethem, Tharda, Kanday melting pot interests me more ;)

Thanks for the thoughts and hopefully get some more feedback as I continue onwards! (if I had an editor they'd cut these posts down too)

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