"Tech" level


Turin
Turin's picture

Just curious Robin. What "tech level" do you say Harn at for the arms and armour issues?

I've always thought it was your average knights with mail hauberks (I like the long sleeve versions), the wealthier using mail chausses, really no plate around.

This is For Harn, some of the other feudal areas of Lythia have the chausses being more common, and the great helm thing, which is kind of rare on Harn.

I have the Ivinian countries equipped pretty well as their feudal counterparts (at least the huscarls), but without full helms and chausses.

Of course your men at arms and yeomen are somewhere between this and no armour, though I'm thinking most professional fighting types at least have a quilted Habergeon or similar.

Just wondering where this fit in with the "standard" view of Harn/Lythia.

Robin
Robin's picture

Armour Tech

That's pretty close.

Articulated plate being rare all over, and there not really being much higher tech than mail.

Yep, you just about nailed it. :)

wordserpent
wordserpent's picture

You've got Mail!

Has anyone developed Brigantine yet? For reference, brigantine are metal plates, usually small ones rivited or sewn in between two pieces of leather.

Does Plate armor not exist at all or is it just rare? Plate armor isn't all that high tech you know. The ancient Greeks had it, albiet it was bronze, and the Romans were using the Lorica segmentata as early as the first century A.D. The Segementata was essentially a segmented steel breatsplate.

Solid steel cuirasses came to use about 1300. I imagine the Kuzdul with their metalcrafting skill and their long history would probably have thought of plate armor. Of course having the knowledge of something doesn't mean that it's going to be used. The Chinese had gunpowder for a good long time, but they didn't invent the gun.

Turin
Turin's picture

It's not real specific

It's not real specific according to the Canon materials. The segmentata I'd really say was more along the lines of the later coat of plates than a segmented breastplate. Horizontal wide strips of metal attached to some foundations is something they both have in common.

For breastplates, the problem with it from what I have heard is a breastplate would cover just that - the chest, but not cuch of the abdomen.

But I could see this in some area of Lythia, the just at the beginning stages, as well as some demi-greaves. Other than that and helms I don't like to see much other that is plate.

Perhaps the Khuzdhul from deep rooted tradition prefer to use mail. Of course the fact that their average quality of mail produced is far better than regular mail (+4 in HM terms for Khuzdhul, not including Jmorvi made, which would be better), the fact of having flexible metal armour without any gaps that plate would have may make more sense for them, as they can have great protection without a ton of weight for foot soldiers, which they all are.

For Brigandine, I like the HMG description of Scale as continous metal reinforcement over a backing. For me, this covers Scale, Lammelar, Brigandine, maybe Coat of plates, Jazerant, etc. It's all very similar, the size of plates and types of backing being the only real differences (perhaps as well where the backing is - COP and Brigandine the metal is sandwiched between fabric or leather). The weights and protective values to me are similar by all these - they all have the same issue, whether or not the backing holds the suit together against a thrust. Sure, Lammelelar may be lighter without a backing, but it's stiffer and more encumbering as well. You can't get under the lames of lammelar as you can scale - but scale often was riveted down to protect against this.

Duke Odo in the bayeaux tapestry was thought to be wearing an early form of Jazerant (I think there is another term for this type of amrour but it escapes me) in 1066 - my feeling is that this was uncommonly worn in the 1100's, so I'm OK with Scale vests over hauberks in my Harn, though it's uncommon or even rare.


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