Recent comments

  • Venârivè: Northwestern Lýthia is published!   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Allan

    Nope, we didn't get to that level of detail for Melderyn.

    Regards

    Jeremy

  • Character Generation   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Hi Allan

    I'll look into it.

    Jeremy

  • Character Generation   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Hi Allan

    I'll look into it.

    Jeremy

  • Venârivè: Northwestern Lýthia is published!   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Was the blockade fleet mentioned in the new module?
    How many and type of ship?

    I do own the new module, just no time with work to look at it.

    Allan

  • Venârivè: Northwestern Lýthia is published!   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Was the blockade fleet mentioned in the new module?
    How many and type of ship?

    I do own the new module, just no time with work to look at it.

    Allan

  • Firis & Points East   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Hi all.

    This has been discussed in depth before me-thinks....:)

    However; to chime in regarding the OP and 'obstacles' I would like to raise the spectre of vested interests. Regardless of whether the salt route is logical/economical in comparison to other proposed routes...it exists and people make money out of it...now...

    Those people..mercantylers, guildsmen..senators..tribesmen!! would no doubt have something to say about their current livelihood being displaced. Now, due to mercantylers eye for the bottom line they pehaps should be seen as 'opportunities' if they can be persuaded of the benefits of a new route. The same goes for Senators; but IMHO thry would be a bit more conservative and indecisive than traders...and require more bribes and time to come round to the idea. A lot of Rhetoric rolls and cash needed methinks...:) This in itself might make 'change' prohibitive...even if change in the long run seems more logical...

    The effect of a route change on the Tulwyn I think would be most interesting. Whilst it may merely supplant the southern with a Northern cross tribe range route...surely this would change which sub tribes would benefit? This IMHO could have catastrophic effects on Tulwyn politics and ergo Thardan border security. Or it could all be smoothed over by a charismatic Headman/woman :)

    Add this to an at least maintained Gargun threat and one has to ask why bother??? Or perhaps more pertinently...who benefits..

  • Firis & Points East   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Hi all.

    This has been discussed in depth before me-thinks....:)

    However; to chime in regarding the OP and 'obstacles' I would like to raise the spectre of vested interests. Regardless of whether the salt route is logical/economical in comparison to other proposed routes...it exists and people make money out of it...now...

    Those people..mercantylers, guildsmen..senators..tribesmen!! would no doubt have something to say about their current livelihood being displaced. Now, due to mercantylers eye for the bottom line they pehaps should be seen as 'opportunities' if they can be persuaded of the benefits of a new route. The same goes for Senators; but IMHO thry would be a bit more conservative and indecisive than traders...and require more bribes and time to come round to the idea. A lot of Rhetoric rolls and cash needed methinks...:) This in itself might make 'change' prohibitive...even if change in the long run seems more logical...

    The effect of a route change on the Tulwyn I think would be most interesting. Whilst it may merely supplant the southern with a Northern cross tribe range route...surely this would change which sub tribes would benefit? This IMHO could have catastrophic effects on Tulwyn politics and ergo Thardan border security. Or it could all be smoothed over by a charismatic Headman/woman :)

    Add this to an at least maintained Gargun threat and one has to ask why bother??? Or perhaps more pertinently...who benefits..

  • Character Generation   7 years 24 weeks ago

    What I was looking for was a Chelemby specific Occupation table, and maybe any other info to make island characters.

    Allan

  • Character Generation   7 years 24 weeks ago

    What I was looking for was a Chelemby specific Occupation table, and maybe any other info to make island characters.

    Allan

  • Firis & Points East   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Quote from the Korego article:

    "Korego is the oldest Gargun colony on Ham and, due to its proximity to the well-travelled Salt Route, one of the most troublesome. Caravaneers may quibble about whether the Hyeka of Korego or the Tulwyn tribesmen are the greater peril to travel between eastern and western Ham, but both are feared."

    Since Korego are attacking caravans on the current Salt Route, running a trail *even closer* to them seems... unwise? :)

  • Firis & Points East   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Quote from the Korego article:

    "Korego is the oldest Gargun colony on Ham and, due to its proximity to the well-travelled Salt Route, one of the most troublesome. Caravaneers may quibble about whether the Hyeka of Korego or the Tulwyn tribesmen are the greater peril to travel between eastern and western Ham, but both are feared."

    Since Korego are attacking caravans on the current Salt Route, running a trail *even closer* to them seems... unwise? :)

  • Miscellaneous "To Dos"   7 years 24 weeks ago

    I think separate character generation tables for cultures is a good idea

    perhaps along culutural lines/regions

    for example

    a baseline "standard" table

    another for Ivinian culture (Chelemby, Ivinia, Harbaal etc)

    another for Venarian Sea cultures (Azeryan, Karejian, Dalkesh etc)

    I think this would help emphasise the cultural differences etc of each region.

    you could even add variations within cultures. for example Chelembians might have less of a martial orientation and more of a commercial orentiation when compared with traditional Ivinian culture.

  • Miscellaneous "To Dos"   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Do we need one for Chélemby (and possibly for other "semi-Ivinian" locations, like Tarkain, Menema, Korlua etc)?

    What about other locations?

    Jeremy

  • Venârivè: Northwestern Lýthia is published   7 years 24 weeks ago

    A comprehensive review of Venârivè: Northwestern Lýthia has been posted on HârnForum:

    http://www.lythia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=11247

    The same review is also available on the "Bat in the Attic" blog:

    http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2010/05/harn-day-it-just-got-whole-lot...

  • How do I purchase products from you without a Paypal account?   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Hi Pameshlu

    While we use Paypal for payment processing, you don't need a "paypal account" to purchase from us, provided you have a credit card from one of the many countries that Paypal covers.

    Paypal accepts major credit cards including Visa, MasterCard ® , American Express, and Discover.

    Alternative Payment Methods

    If you don't have a Paypal account, then simply choose one of these options when you are transferred to the Paypal site.

    Full details on how to purchase products from Kelestia.com can be found here:
    http://www.kelestia.com/purchasing

    Regards

    Jeremy

  • How do I purchase products from you without a Paypal account?   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Hi Pameshlu

    While we use Paypal for payment processing, you don't need a "paypal account" to purchase from us, provided you have a credit card from one of the many countries that Paypal covers.

    Paypal accepts major credit cards including Visa, MasterCard ® , American Express, and Discover.

    Alternative Payment Methods

    If you don't have a Paypal account, then simply choose one of these options when you are transferred to the Paypal site.

    Full details on how to purchase products from Kelestia.com can be found here:
    http://www.kelestia.com/purchasing

    Regards

    Jeremy

  • Firis & Points East   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Ilkka

    I didn't say it wouldn't or couldn't happen - I was responding to the original post, which asked what the obstacles might be.

    As for the topography, the Hârn Interactive Regional Map does show this region as quite broken. Yes, a trail might be forged here - but it would take (in my view) a lot of work and time. Your example of the Alps includes a key point - "since time immemorial" - i.e. a well established pass, with a clear trail. Also, in the case of the Alps, 'going around' takes *a lot* longer than going through Ramala :)

    I mentioned the Tulwyn because the original query suggested that they could be avoided altogether; in my view while the current route clearly passes through more (longer) Tulwyn territories, the new proposed new route is right through the heart of the strongest, arguably most aggressive, Tulwyn tribe's territory.

    If the Tulwyn, for whatever reason, consider their 'core' lands to be sacrosanct, then that's not a bad reason why the Salt Route has traditionally taken the circuitous route that it has.

    As for the Korego gargun range - it certainly does extend to the area under discussion - although I guess it depends on what "area" precisely you mean :) (btw, I'm using the range defined on the Harn Interactive Regional Map).

    So, as I said - not saying it can't or couldn't be done; but it would be a challenge.

  • Firis & Points East   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Ilkka

    I didn't say it wouldn't or couldn't happen - I was responding to the original post, which asked what the obstacles might be.

    As for the topography, the Hârn Interactive Regional Map does show this region as quite broken. Yes, a trail might be forged here - but it would take (in my view) a lot of work and time. Your example of the Alps includes a key point - "since time immemorial" - i.e. a well established pass, with a clear trail. Also, in the case of the Alps, 'going around' takes *a lot* longer than going through Ramala :)

    I mentioned the Tulwyn because the original query suggested that they could be avoided altogether; in my view while the current route clearly passes through more (longer) Tulwyn territories, the new proposed new route is right through the heart of the strongest, arguably most aggressive, Tulwyn tribe's territory.

    If the Tulwyn, for whatever reason, consider their 'core' lands to be sacrosanct, then that's not a bad reason why the Salt Route has traditionally taken the circuitous route that it has.

    As for the Korego gargun range - it certainly does extend to the area under discussion - although I guess it depends on what "area" precisely you mean :) (btw, I'm using the range defined on the Harn Interactive Regional Map).

    So, as I said - not saying it can't or couldn't be done; but it would be a challenge.

  • Firis & Points East   7 years 24 weeks ago

    The issue of a new route for the Salt Route has been discussed extensively here:

    http://www.lythia.com/2008/06/kaldor-port-2/

    To briefly sum up the supporting points, and to counter those promoted by Fastred:

    a) The land east of Firis is not so hilly/mountainous as to prevent land movement. An extreme anecdote: there have been important trade routes over the Alps since times immemorial.

    b) The Tulwyn occupy many more miles of land along the present Salt Route. Thus: an extremely weak explanation from Fastred (shame on you! >D)

    c) The Gargun have typical hunting ranges, and the hunting range of the Korego Gargun doesn't quite reach to the region discussed here.

    Also note that there are whole sovereing Tulwyn tribes living closer to Korego than the region discussed here! Surely the Gargun are not so big a threat, especially for a decently guarded caravan.

    d) The main trade route is from Coranan because someone (NRC?) decided so some 30 years ago. Had that someone looked at the map and thought for a moment longer, other, more plausible routes could have been found.

    Bonding taxes... You can easily calculate the savings in time & animal fodder & labour (caravan guards) and compare them to bonding taxes that need to be paid along the Coranan-Telen-Shiran-Firis-Estane route. If the bonding fees end up being higher than the savings, then the wise people in Telen, Shiran and Firis probably cut the bonding fees in order to bring in more trade. And even if they don't, they can still use the northern route for their own goods, and skip doing the maddening trip southwest, when they actually need to go into the opposite direction to reach Kaldor.

    e) Tradition... You can think the eastern and western Hârnians blundered centuries ago, and then stuck to that costly and burdening blunder... Or you can think they have free will, and are able to seek new routes (cf. the Aramal Road project), and money goes where it brings the most...

    Of course, an arduous Salt Route travelling leagues of Ramali and Tulwyn wilderness provides good opportunities for (militant) adventuring. Fantasy adventures never needed much logic for fun. :)

    -ile

  • Firis & Points East   7 years 24 weeks ago

    The issue of a new route for the Salt Route has been discussed extensively here:

    http://www.lythia.com/2008/06/kaldor-port-2/

    To briefly sum up the supporting points, and to counter those promoted by Fastred:

    a) The land east of Firis is not so hilly/mountainous as to prevent land movement. An extreme anecdote: there have been important trade routes over the Alps since times immemorial.

    b) The Tulwyn occupy many more miles of land along the present Salt Route. Thus: an extremely weak explanation from Fastred (shame on you! >D)

    c) The Gargun have typical hunting ranges, and the hunting range of the Korego Gargun doesn't quite reach to the region discussed here.

    Also note that there are whole sovereing Tulwyn tribes living closer to Korego than the region discussed here! Surely the Gargun are not so big a threat, especially for a decently guarded caravan.

    d) The main trade route is from Coranan because someone (NRC?) decided so some 30 years ago. Had that someone looked at the map and thought for a moment longer, other, more plausible routes could have been found.

    Bonding taxes... You can easily calculate the savings in time & animal fodder & labour (caravan guards) and compare them to bonding taxes that need to be paid along the Coranan-Telen-Shiran-Firis-Estane route. If the bonding fees end up being higher than the savings, then the wise people in Telen, Shiran and Firis probably cut the bonding fees in order to bring in more trade. And even if they don't, they can still use the northern route for their own goods, and skip doing the maddening trip southwest, when they actually need to go into the opposite direction to reach Kaldor.

    e) Tradition... You can think the eastern and western Hârnians blundered centuries ago, and then stuck to that costly and burdening blunder... Or you can think they have free will, and are able to seek new routes (cf. the Aramal Road project), and money goes where it brings the most...

    Of course, an arduous Salt Route travelling leagues of Ramali and Tulwyn wilderness provides good opportunities for (militant) adventuring. Fantasy adventures never needed much logic for fun. :)

    -ile

  • Venârivè: Northwestern Lýthia is published!   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Thanks guys and parteners of guys and parents of guys and friends of guys.

    Allan

  • Venârivè: Northwestern Lýthia is published!   7 years 24 weeks ago

    Thanks guys and parteners of guys and parents of guys and friends of guys.

    Allan

  • Firis & Points East   7 years 24 weeks ago

    I've studied a bit of philosophy, but you've obviously studied more than me. (Plus mine was ~20 years ago and not often consciously referred to since). So maybe you're right about Siem; maybe that's why the Khuzdul seem to focus on the demigod given charge over them, rather than on Siem himself. He makes them too uncomfortable, with his inaction/Neutrality.

    But I still think that SK is more Neutral than Lawful, at least in the sense that humans understand these terms. He might be Lawful from the perspective of the Harnic gods, but we already know that humans can't understand their grasp of Law: "tis the Concordat and not the will of the god."

    (NOTE: SK may not be "Lawful" even from the god's perspective: they obviously can't agree on what's Lawful or SK wouldn't be needed in his role as arbiter of their peace treaty.)

    For a Harnic god to be Lawful (from the human viewpoint) would seem to require the publication of a fixed code of conduct and adherence to that code. Whether that code promotes "Good" or "Evil" behavior is a different matter. SK doesn't publish a code. In fact, if/when you learn the deepest secrets of his church, his philosophy is pretty much "the ends justify the means." That makes him Neutral as regards Law and Chaos, at least to my mind. Add that he seeks to protect Kelestia from the dissolution that uncontrolled Chaos would bring - an arguably Good purpose - and I end up with NG.

  • Firis & Points East   7 years 24 weeks ago

    I've studied a bit of philosophy, but you've obviously studied more than me. (Plus mine was ~20 years ago and not often consciously referred to since). So maybe you're right about Siem; maybe that's why the Khuzdul seem to focus on the demigod given charge over them, rather than on Siem himself. He makes them too uncomfortable, with his inaction/Neutrality.

    But I still think that SK is more Neutral than Lawful, at least in the sense that humans understand these terms. He might be Lawful from the perspective of the Harnic gods, but we already know that humans can't understand their grasp of Law: "tis the Concordat and not the will of the god."

    (NOTE: SK may not be "Lawful" even from the god's perspective: they obviously can't agree on what's Lawful or SK wouldn't be needed in his role as arbiter of their peace treaty.)

    For a Harnic god to be Lawful (from the human viewpoint) would seem to require the publication of a fixed code of conduct and adherence to that code. Whether that code promotes "Good" or "Evil" behavior is a different matter. SK doesn't publish a code. In fact, if/when you learn the deepest secrets of his church, his philosophy is pretty much "the ends justify the means." That makes him Neutral as regards Law and Chaos, at least to my mind. Add that he seeks to protect Kelestia from the dissolution that uncontrolled Chaos would bring - an arguably Good purpose - and I end up with NG.

  • Firis & Points East   7 years 24 weeks ago

    SK is also the judge and arbiter of the Concordat, and has been accepted _by all the gods_ in that role. To me that indicates a neutral outlook, but tempered by a strong "personal" code (of the god himself, not necessarily the priests - though that may also follow).

    As I said originally, it depends on how you view "Law" and "Chaos", too. They were "in vogue" terms when OD&D/HârnWorld were first written, but are not that well defined, even now. I tend to view the ethical bent of them as consisting primarily of utilitarianism for Law and a more Kantian/Doctrine of the End in Themselves focus for Chaos. That leads to a view of Siem being CG with his "inaction" being due more to an ethic that says others have a right to act as they like unless it threatens the freedom of one's own than to an uncaring nature. Think along the lines of "I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to tell such lies" for some idea of what I'm thinking, here ;-)


User login










Recent comments




Keléstia Connect





Who's online?

There are currently 0 users and 49 guests online.



© 2014 Keléstia Productions Ltd. and N. Robin Crossby (1954-2008).
The opinions expressed on this website are those of their respective owners and do not necessarily reflect the views of Keléstia Productions Ltd.
Trademarks are the property of their respective owners.